Agenda item

Motion submitted by Councillor Roy regarding the Fenland Flag.

Councillor Roy presented his motion concerning The Flag of the Fens.

Councillor Summers seconded the motion and members made the following comments:

·         Councillor Mrs Laws stated that she does not hear of anyone in Whittlesey accepting this flag from Whittlesey Town Council’s point of view and she cannot support it as she considers it to be a poor copy and design of the rampant of Scotland and the Royal Banner of the Royal Arms of Scotland. She drew members attention to the centre of the Chamber, where there is a carpet which has the Fenland registered insignia and also on entering Fenland Hall there was a flag flying which is the same insignia as in the Chamber. Councillor Mrs Laws made the point that The Flag of the Fens has been talked about for several years and she does not consider it represents Fenland. She feels if members have the time and inclination to look at this she would suggest it goes out to consultation and goes through the proper process but she cannot see anything wrong with the Fenland emblem that exists now.

·         Councillor Tierney expressed the view that normally when a motion is presented to Council he would expect to see a problem being raised, suggestions to clarify the depth of the problem and then a solution and he does not feel this motion does this as it is a bit vague and seems to require him to do some research before he can look at supporting it. He referred to the first paragraph where it says Fenland is growing, the East of England is growing, which is fine but the second paragraph then says Fenland needs an identity but he feels that Fenland already has an identity, Fenland itself as well as all the individual villages and towns all have culture and identity already and he feels it a little rude to suggest otherwise, which this motion does in several places. Councillor Tierney expressed the opinion that it is for the people of Fenland to decide if they need a flag to represent them not one individual and it may be that lots of work has been undertaken but the motion does not mention this, it gives no background. He stated that the third paragraph goes on to do what is called a logical fallacy, it is an appeal to authority by saying these other people support it, the MP supports it so this Council should support it, these people are all entitled to their views but members have their own decision to make looking at the evidence presented to them. Councillor Tierney referred to it finally stating that all these people need to be brought together under one identity as if suggesting a flag developed or thought about by one person will somehow solve every issue that cultures, religions and races have with one another and he does not believe a flag will change that. He feels the motion is a failed motion, it does not do what it is supposed to do and what he would expect to see in a motion. Councillor Tierney stated in terms of the flag itself he does not like the design personally but if everyone in Fenland liked the design then it could be brought forward but he would like to see evidence of a wide consultation, schools involved and some talk about what Fenland really means so it could be introduced into the flag.

·         Councillor Gowler echoed some of the comments made by Councillor Tierney and stated personally he likes the idea of a flag and agrees with some of the things in the motion about giving Fenland an identity. He stated that he does have a problem with this flag and it being one person’s idea and he would prefer there to be some kind of consultation, with schools being involved may be having some kind of competition with the best ones being selected and then subject to a public vote. Councillor Gowler referred to the motion being concentrated on Fenland but he knows the individual proposing the flag comes from Ely which suggests it represents more than Fenland itself and more likely represents The Fens so he does not think this Council should be the only authority that should make this decision.

·         Councillor Carney stated that background reading revealed to him from The Flag of the Fens Facebook group that it is not just about Fenland itself, it is trying to encompass the geographical area of the Fens which goes from Lincolnshire to Suffolk and includes West Norfolk. He feels it is more of a trademark for businesses and individuals who wish to stamp their product as being a product from the Fens and reading what the British Flag Institute says about registration of flags is that any flag that is registered with them has to be one that can be used freely and without any repercussions. Councillor Carney stated that should this Council be minded to support it or not, if The Flag of the Fens became officially registered there would be no obligation for this Council to use that flag simply because there is already a Fenland District Council flag.

·         Councillor Christy stated that he agrees with the spirit of the flag but he echoes the sentiment of Councillor Tierney and thinks it is the wrong place to bring it to the Council as a motion as it not right for members to be making that decision, it should be consulted on and the people should decide. He stated that he cannot support it.

·         Councillor Sennitt Clough stated that with all due respect to Councillor Roy, she is from the Fens and as Chair of the Culture, Arts and Heritage Committee it would be remiss of her not to talk about the history of the Fens. She made the point that the Fens has not always had a homogenous identity and she feels it is important to preserve the identity of the Fens as a group, a collection of islands which is reflected in their names with the suffixes e, ey or ea. Councillor Sennitt Clough feels that to airbrush that history and individual spirit of the Fens is not acceptable to her and she is unable to support it with her Culture, Arts and Heritage hat on.

·         Councillor Hoy stated that she is not bothered either way about this flag but from a personal level she is not keen on how it looks as it looks more like a dragon than a tiger but she does like the idea of people having an identity because of the amount of times she has said she is from Fenland and people do not know where it is. She expressed her disappointment that there are not many motions submitted to Council from the opposition and there are so many issues in Fenland at the moment, such as dualling the A47, the dire problems in Whittlesey, etc., but where are the motions on these important issues.

·         Councillor Summers stated that he is no expert on flags and he cannot dispute any of the facts that other people have raised but what he feels is that there is some logic behind what is being proposed, some justification for it and the sentiment behind it is a positive one of bringing communities together and a lot of the responses today have focussed on the negatives as the motion could fail but there could be a more positive conversation. He stated that personally he is ambivalent about the design, he is not from the Fens originally but he likes the idea. Councillor Summers referred to Councillor Hoy’s point, yes there are a lot of important issues going on but not many of the ones discussed are in the Council’s control whereas supporting something or not that a member of the community is trying to achieve is within this Council’s control.

Councillor Roy in summing up thanked all the councillors that had commented and made the point that every day is a learning day, especially to the councillors that put forward the proposal to have a consultation, which is an element he had overlooked. He requested that the motion be withdrawn.

The motion was withdrawn.

(Councillor Sennitt Clough declared that she had been lobbied extensively on this item but would remain open minded)